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General Category => Tamil Bible => Topic started by: udaya on February 01, 2015, 11:01:55 AM
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நான் பூமியிலே சமாதானத்தை உண்டாக்கவந்தேன் என்று நினைக்கிறீர்களோ? சமாதானத்தையல்ல, பிரிவினையையே உண்டாக்கவந்தேன் என்று உங்களுக்குச் சொல்லுகிறேன்.
லூக்கா 12 :51
பூமியின்மேல் சமாதானத்தை அனுப்பவந்தேன் என்று எண்ணாதிருங்கள், சமாதானத்தையல்ல, பட்டயத்தையே அனுப்பவந்தேன்.
எப்படியெனில், மகனுக்கும் தகப்பனுக்கும், மகளுக்கும் தாய்க்கும், மருமகளுக்கும் மாமிக்கும் பிரிவினையுண்டாக்க வந்தேன்.
மத்தேயு 10 :34 , 35
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இயேசு கிறிஸ்துவின் பிறப்பை மேய்ப்பர்களுக்கு , அறிவித்த தூதர்கள் , பூமியில் சமாதானம் உண்டாவதாக , என்று சொல்லி துதித்தார்கள் . லூக்கா 2: 14.
ஆனால் , " சமாதான பிரபு " என்று கருதப்பட்ட இயேசு கிறிஸ்து , தான் சமாதானத்தை கொடுக்க வரவில்லை என்று கூறுவது ஆச்சரியமாக உள்ளது . மேலும் , பிரிவினையை உண்டாக்க வந்தேன் என்றும் கூறுகிறார் . அவர் ஏன் அப்படி கூறினார் ?
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Hi brother Praise the Lord, en Peru Rajesh, I just want to put some words about your question...., yen avar apdi sonnar endral saathanukum namaku Ulla uravu, paavathukum namakkum Ulla uravu irundhu nammai pirika than apdi sonna. Avar nammudaiya samadhanthuko alladhu santhosathuko apdi sollavillai. Are you agree.....? Please let me know......
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@:yen avar apdi sonnar endral saathanukum namaku Ulla uravu, paavathukum namakkum Ulla uravu irundhu nammai pirika than apdi sonna.
மத்தேயு 10 :35 ல் ... " மகனுக்கும் தகப்பனுக்கும், மகளுக்கும் தாய்க்கும், மருமகளுக்கும் மாமிக்கும் பிரிவினையுண்டாக்க வந்தேன்." என்று இயேசு கிறிஸ்து சொல்கிறார் ...சாத்தானுக்கும் நமக்கும் உள்ள உறவை பிரிக்க வந்தார் என்று நீங்கள் சொல்கிறீர்கள் ...இயேசு கிறிஸ்து சொல்வது சரியா ? அல்லது நீங்கள் சொல்வது சரியா ? தெள்ளத் தெளிவாக , எல்லோரும் புரிந்து கொள்ளும்படி , பைபிள் சொல்லும் ஒரு விஷயத்தை , உங்களுக்கு சௌரியமாக மாற்றி கூறுவது , தவறு ..bro. இப்படி. செய்யக்கூடாது என்று வேதாகமம் பல வசனங்களில் நம்மை எச்சரிக்கிறது :o
@: Avar nammudaiya samadhanthuko alladhu santhosathuko apdi sollavillai.
பின் , வேறு எதற்காக சொன்னார் ?!?!?!
பூமியில் சமாதானத்தை உண்டாக்க வரவில்லை என்று அவர் குறிப்பிடுவது நமது சமாதானத்தைதானே !?! இந்த பூமியில் ஆடுமாடுகளுக்கா சமாதானம் வேண்டும் ? இல்லை ...செடி கொடிகளுக்கா சமாதானம் ? சமாதானம் என்றால் அது மனிதர்களுக்கான சமாதானம்தான்.
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En anbu sagotharare... Ipodhum solgiren avar nammudaiya samadhai kedukkavo alladhu pirivinai undakkavo varavillai, avar samadhana prabhu Yesu christhu pogumbhodhu ennudaiya samadhanathaiye vaithuvitu pogiren endru sonnavar nam thayikum namakum, nam kudumbathil pirivinai irukattum endru nanaitha apdi solli iruppar..?. illai. Pinna yen samadhanathai alla pirivinai undakka vandhen endru sonnar endral.. Oru kudumbathil magan ratchikka patirundhal thaiy ratchikka pattu iruka mattargal marumagal ratchikka patirundhal mamaiyar ratchikka pattu irukka mattargal ipdi irundhal kudumbathil pirivinaithane undagum idhargagathan apdi sonnar.... Eninum Yesu Christhuvai yetrukondal samadhanam...... Amen.. Jesus loves you.......
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அன்பு சகோதரா !
நான் கேட்ட கேள்வி 2 பகுதிகளை கொண்டது .
1. சமாதானத்தை உண்டாக்க வரவில்லை என்று கூறியது .
2. பிரிவினையை உண்டாக்க வந்தேன் என்று கூறியது .
1ம் பகுதிக்கு பதிலளிக்கும்போது , நீங்கள் இயேசு கிறிஸ்துவின் வார்த்தைகளை ஒதுக்கி புறம்பாக தள்ளிவிட்டீர்கள் . உங்கள் சொந்த கருத்தை அவர் கருத்தாக காட்ட முயற்சி செய்திருக்கிறீர்கள் . சமாதானத்தை உண்டாக்க வராதவர் எப்படி சமாதானத்தை வைத்து செல்லமுடியும் ?
2ம் பகுதியை புரிந்து கொள்ள கஷ்டப்படுகிறீர்கள் என்று நினைக்கிறேன் . நீங்கள் கூறுவது குடும்பத்தில் இருக்கும் உறுப்பினர்களை , ரட்சிக்கப்பட்டவர்கள் - ரட்சிக்கப்படாதவர்கள் என்று இனம் பிரிப்பது . நான் கேட்க விரும்புவது , பிரிவினையை உண்டாக்க வந்தேன் என்ற அவருடைய வார்த்தைகள் பற்றியது .
பிரிப்பது என்பது வேறு . பிரிவினையை உண்டாக்க வந்தேன் என்று கூறுவது வேறு . இரண்டுக்கும் உள்ள வேறுபாட்டை புரிந்துகொள்வீர்கள் என்று நம்புகிறேன் .
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Praise the Lord
Don't worry both r same meaning. But the way that he presented is different.
Luke 12:51 says DIVISION is for us and Satan
Just think if we and Satan get peaceful covenant with us what will happen......
That's y Jesus said division
If u read Matthew 10:37
Anyone who loves his father and mother MORE then ME is not worthy of me.....
I hope u understand
Satan and our own family will separate us from God that's y this separation . it does not mean we should not love our family its wrritten in the Bible MORE THEN ME......
Think it and change it
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@: Luke 12:51 says DIVISION is for us and Satan
Luke 12:51 doesn't say anything about Satan.
@ : Just think if we and Satan get peaceful covenant with us what will happen.
We may torture some person like Job .
Didn't you read the book of job ?
@ : If u read Matthew 10:37Anyone who loves his father and mother MORE then ME is not worthy of me.....I hope u understandSatan and our own family will separate us from God that's y this separation . it does not mean we should not love our family its wrritten in the Bible MORE THEN ME......Think it and change it
Please read Matthew 10:34,35 and Luke 12:51 very slowly and carefully.
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2 Corinthians 6:16-18
What agreement is there between the temple of god and idols? For we are the temple of the loving God. As God has said: " I will live with them and walk among then, and I will be their God, and they will be my people".
" therefore come out from them and BE SEPARATE, says the Lord. .......
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What about Matthew 10:34,35 and Luke 12:51
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It does not mean separation will be out side the basic character ( after accepting Christ as a personal savior)
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Basic character !
What is that ?
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That means before accepting Christ we may get angry more or else treating others badly but after accepting Christ the basic character will be changed.
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Ok....
But what it has to do with the original title question ?
How it is related to the verses I have mentioned ?
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We can see in other way also while we r in this world if we get full peace no separation at all means we will never remember our God...
It may be the reason
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Peacefullness. = no remembering GOD
Seperation. = remembering GOD
Is that what you are trying to say ?
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M
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Oh....
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What is ur opinion pa
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GOD is too complicated to my little knowledge .
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I asked ur opinion pa
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Opinion about what ?
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OK I don't want to put me in trouble
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I respect your decision.
But .....
I don't mind putting myself into trouble of any magnitude, when I read, study, learn, , discuss , propogate THE HOLY BIBLE.
BTW, you need not answer to this post if you are unwilling.
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Hello did I say I am unwilling to argue???? I said I don't want to put me in trouble ....... That's all if u ask I am willing to give answers OK.........
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Still willing?
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Ya sure pa.....
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மகனுக்கும் தகப்பனுக்கும், மகளுக்கும் தாய்க்கும், மருமகளுக்கும் மாமிக்கும் பிரிவினையுண்டாக்க வந்தேன் - இயேசு கிறிஸ்து.
குடும்பத்தை ஏன் பிரிக்க நினைக்கிறார் ?
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Dear Brothers and Sisters,
I am Hindu Brahmin girl. I fell in love with a non brahmin hindu boy 10 years back when i was just in school. It was not really love when i think of it just age attraction. But as we grew we became best of friends supported each other in tough times and still in Love.
His dad was the first ever to be redeemed from his family around 2000 AD
He was redeemed by our Lord in 2009.
I was redeemed during 2012.
Many believers i ve encountered has told me God ll choose first one person from the family and then He ll redeem all. You ve no idea what it is like to live with non-beleiving parents and when you re with light.
I can very much relate to the verses given.
Yes God ll come to create problems and fights between family members like i am facing now, i am facing heat in my family cos i want to marry the one i love, cos he and his family are in Christ and i don't goto temples or worship idols or beleive in astrology.
But when the time comes i am faithful Our Lord ll make my parents Him and bring peace to me and the people i love like He has promised and praised as Prince of Peace.
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Bargavi sister, I am so happy to hear your witness.
May God use u more for His Kingdom!
May ur family live for Gods glory !
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Sis.Bhargavi....
The problems you are facing is not what Jesus was talking about. However , I wish you a life that you are want to live.....plus .....happiness & peace through out your life time , both to you and your parents.
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Bro Udaya, pls leave sis Bargavi. I really don't understand ur motive behind all ur arguments. Pls don't confuse others. U ask ur doubts to learned ppl, not simple ppl . This is a wonderful group of ppl who just trust God and His word !
God bless you brother !
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My intention is not to confuse. I just pointed out the difference between her situation and the topic at hand. If that is wrong , I request you to ignore that. Thanks.
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Ur intention might be good bro Udaya. But it seems like u don't bring eedification but u bring confusion and doubt.
I think I am being judgmental. Sorry if I hurt u .
But I feel we should be not put stumbling blocks before ppl.
I remember 2 verses.
Matthew 18:6,7
6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.
7 Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!
*[[1Co 10:23]] KJV* All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not.
Bro Udaya, may God use u to bring many to the saving grace of our Lord Jesus Christ
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@: But it seems like u don't bring eedification but u bring confusion and doubt.
confusion...?
கற்பாறையின் மேல் கட்டப்பட்ட வீட்டை காற்று கலைத்துவிட முடியாது !
உறுதியான விசுவாசம் உடையவரை உதயா குழப்பிவிட முடியாது !
@: Sorry if I hurt u .
Don't worry...You can never hurt me !
@: But I feel we should be not put stumbling blocks before ppl.
I agree Bro. But how to communicate it in a public forum ?
@: I remember 2 verses.
I too , remember two verses.
Rom 10:17 , Mat 5:37 .
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Bro Udaya, from the way u answered I know U did not like my suggestion.
Pls do whatever u like, I won't interfere any more.
God bless You !
Ecclesiastes 11:9; 12:14
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Welcome back to the topic....
மகனுக்கும் தகப்பனுக்கும், மகளுக்கும் தாய்க்கும், மருமகளுக்கும் மாமிக்கும் பிரிவினையுண்டாக்க வந்தேன் - இயேசு கிறிஸ்து.
குடும்பத்தை ஏன் பிரிக்க நினைக்கிறார் ?
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Dear Brother, you missed the whole point in my message.
Lord came into my life, i chose Him. I still choose Him. So i am facing problems and fighting with my family a lot who are idol worshippers. A friend of mine who chose light fought with her father for 7 years cos he was a devote of mother mary.
When Christ comes into your life, and when your family is not with Him. There ll be problems. There ll be fights. That's what this verse says
I came to create problems between family members.
But obeying Lord is important than obeying your parents.
He who loves his parents more than he loves the God is not a child of God.
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@: Dear Brother, you missed the whole point in my message.
Sorry sister.
@: Lord came into my life, ........................................... mother mary.
I don't want to take your personal situation for a public forum discussion.I just wish you a peaceful life.
@: When Christ comes into your life, and when your family is not with Him. There ll be problems. There ll be fights. That's what this verse says
The verse does not say some of the members of the family were not with Jesus, as you said. Moreover problems "does" exist irrespective of whether the family members are with or not with Jesus (there are real world examples for this). When all the members of the family are with Jesus and if still there are problems,People say it is the hand of Satan.On the other hand , there are idol worshiping families who are living in total harmony and peace. So, I think "taking side with Jesus" shall not be the criteria for dividing the family , as you suggested.
நான் பூமியிலே சமாதானத்தை உண்டாக்கவந்தேன் என்று நினைக்கிறீர்களோ? சமாதானத்தையல்ல, பிரிவினையையே உண்டாக்கவந்தேன் என்று உங்களுக்குச் சொல்லுகிறேன்.
லூக்கா 12 :51
" சமாதான பிரபு " என்று கருதப்பட்ட இயேசு கிறிஸ்து , தான் சமாதானத்தை கொடுக்க வரவில்லை என்று கூறுவது ஆச்சரியமாக உள்ளது .
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Dear brother, hope you re aware of apologetics. I am pasting a research paper here.
Did Jesus Come to Bring Peace—or Turmoil?
by Caleb Colley, Ph.D.
Militant, violent, religious extremists have caused legitimate concern for America’s security. In Palestine, on the very soil Jesus walked, people kill each other in warfare motivated by religion. Do the teachings of Christ authorize or encourage such behavior? In John 14:27, Jesus said: “Peace I leave with you, My peace I give to you; not as the world gives do I give to you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.” Some have charged that Jesus’ promise of peace in that verse contradicts His message in Matthew 10:34: “Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword.” Did Jesus come to Earth to bring peace—or turmoil?
Based on scriptural evidence, it is indisputable that Jesus wants His followers to have peace. The words “Christ” and “peace” are found together in the same verse no less than 24 times in the New King James Version. Consider Philippians 1:2: “Grace to you and peace from God our Father and Lord Jesus Christ.” 2 Corinthians 1:2 reads: “Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.” Paul urged the Thessalonians, “Be at peace among yourselves” (1 Thessalonians 5:13). The message of Christ is called “the gospel of peace” (Ephesians 6:15), and Philippians 4:7 says that the peace of God “surpasses all understanding” and that peace will guard the hearts and minds of Christians. Jesus, Who is called the Prince of Peace in Isaiah 9:6, most definitely came to bring peace.
Could it also be that Jesus came to bring turmoil? Certainly. In the context of Matthew 10:34, Jesus was explaining to His disciples that the Gospel, in some cases, would cause division. A son would believe in Jesus, but his father might not. A mother would believe, but her daughter might refuse even to hear the Gospel. In Matthew 10:37-38, Jesus presented a hard truth: “He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me.” Richard Lenski offered insight into the implications of the “turmoil” brought by Christ:
The idea is this: if Christ had not come, the earth would have gone on undisturbed in its sin and its guilt until the day of its doom. Now Christ came to take away that sin and that guilt. At once war resulted, for in their perversion men clung to their sin, fought Christ and the gospel, and thus produced two hostile camps. Christ foresaw this effect and willed it. Emphatically He declared that He came to throw a sword on the earth. Better the war and the division, saving as many as possible, than to let all perish in their sin (1943, p. 415).
Many react with hostility to the Gospel. This is not because Christ’s teaching promotes hostility (see Matthew 5:44; 7:12; John 13:14; 13:35), but because Jesus’ teachings are highly controversial. In Matthew 10:34, Jesus did not mean to suggest that His purpose was to bring hostility or turmoil, but that hostility would, in some cases, be an effect of His teaching (Barnes, 1949, p. 115). It always will be the case that some people will respond negatively to Christ’s teachings, for some always will prefer spiritual darkness to the light of Jesus (John 3:19). Christ, Who came to Earth to bring both peace and turmoil, never contradicted Himself.
REFERENCES
Barnes, Albert (1949), Notes on the New Testament: Matthew and Mark (Grand Rapids, MI: Baker).
Lenksi, Richard C. H. (1943), The Interpretation of St. Matthew’s Gospel (Minneapolis, MN: Augsburg).
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Thank you for the paper..
The author try to resolve a possible contradiction between John 14:27 and Mathew 10:34.
But he explained Mathew 10:34 based on his OWN assumption . That is what you have already said in your previous reply. Nothing new.
The question is ....is it ok to explain scripture inserting our own ideas ?
BTW...
If we are not accepting an explanation offered , the person who explained accuses us as spiritual blind , negative mind ..etc. The explainer usually think he is right and others are wrong.
Does God's word need an explanation , especially when it is absolutely clear and does not require an explanation ?
OR
Does it require an explanation only when it sounds not right and creates big discomfort ?
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From what i ve observed through all the posts you sound rather argumentative than as a seeker of truth.
You re not ready to accept explanations to any of your questions. Any reply we give is our own assumption, not a plausible explanation. You doubt Noah's story, call it a myth. You question if Judas ll be heaven. As far as i am concerned God created Heaven and whom He allows into His property is His right and no human has any right to question or discuss if a human can have a place in heaven just like no one has rights to question who you allow into your house.
I am sorry. This is my last post in this forum . you spoil my peace Brother.
If you accept God, you ve to accept His words too without doubting His actions.
For His ways are better than your ways. His plans for you are better than your plan for you.
Still if you re questioning God's actions, remember Evil is a choice. No one, absolutely no one is forcing anyone to read Bible, and follow it.
Adam and Eve had a choice to not to eat the fruit. No one force fed them.
You and i have a choice. Believe that God's ways are perfect, His plans are flawless, though things don't seem coherent now, one day everything make sense.
VISUVAASAM ILLAAMAL DEVANUKU PIRIYAMAGA IRUPATHU KOODAATHA KAARIYAM.
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Understand No idol worshipping family is living in total harmony and peace. Even they re it won't be permanent.
For them, God ll punish you for sin you don't even remember (sins from previous birth).
If it's bad time in your astrology chart you ve to suffer, if you ve sinned, you ve to suffer even if you ask for forgivance.
For the True God's children, whatever problems we face He ll be our tower of Strength and refugee. He ll make the problems go away or give us strength to overcome any loss.
He has promised to never leave you nor forsake you and His word is true.
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Sis...
Pardon me for big talking.
First of all , this particular thread discuss theoretical / philosophical type matters, not religious faith , spiritual life etc . Actually, I was expecting some comments from Bible experts, not from simple people , as Horeb described ! I responded to your replies just because you addressed me directly . You see , I have not commented your replies in other threads . I don't want to be a hurdle in your spiritual journey , or anybody else's for that matter. I can explain the things you wrote in your recent post .... I can explain you why I am here..... But I believe , you would not be interested , hence I am avoiding.....
@: I am sorry. This is my last post in this forum .
Why ?....don't get frustrated....There are so many good people around here who can help you strengthening your faith.
Just avoid answering the posts that is not appropriate for you.....Please move on.
@: you spoil my peace Brother.
I am extremely sorry that happened that way...............If you wish you can ask this questions yourself..
My peace is really the peace mentioned in John 14:27 ?
(If yes , then you cannot be disturbed.)
@: From what i ve observed through all the posts you sound rather argumentative than as a seeker of truth.
I consider myself a seeker of truth ..
I believe you would agree that a seeker seeks , examines & evaluate all the things in front of him , until he find the truth. ( 1 Thes 5:21 )
Arguments arises only when there is a ground for arguments .
I refrain from commenting on reply#41 , unless you ask .
Thank you very much for reading this post.
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Bro Udaya !
This is what I meant when I said previously that u don't bring edification!
I also feel so sad for ppl who have been led astray by your posts and comments.
Why can't u SEEK it with ppl who know it more !
As far as I have seen here many here are really so sincere in loving Jesus and many who have just started their spiritual journey !
Pls think if it is right to be a stumbling block to them !
I know U will answer for every sentence of minewith some intellugentbarguments
But I really feel so sad !
Pls tthink abt many like Bargavi sister who gave been hurt u !
Pls don't make others stumble !
Pls be a channel of blessings to others !
Pls bro.
Just think for sometime, why am I doing this ??
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Thank you for your advice/suggestion Bro.
I just want to ask you few things.
1.Can I ask questions here ?
2.If yes , how to ask questions or what questions should I ask ?
3.I believe the IQ of this forum is high ..........am I wrong ?
4.Am I a stumbling block ?..... stumbling block to what ?
Though I don't want to be a stumbling block , I understand stumbling blocks are part of christian life , which make us stronger in our spiritual journey.
You already said that you won't interfere....But I request you to I N T E R F E R E..............That is what this forum is meant for.
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*[[Eph 4:29]] NET* You must let no unwholesome word come out of your mouth, but only what is beneficial for the building up of the one in need, that it may give grace to those who hear.
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*[[Mat 18:6]] NET* “But if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a huge millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the open sea.
*[[Mat 18:7]] NET* Woe to the world because of stumbling blocks! It is necessary that stumbling blocks come, but woe to the person through whom they come.
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Comment on reply #45:
I always check myself that unwholesome word not to come out of my mouth /typing . Did I speak that way any time ?
"Beneficial" is sujective.
Example: If you announce "Time" loudly in a street , it is not beneficial to many people in the street , but would be beneficial to a blind man in the corner.
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Comment on reply #46:
Bro..please don't mistake me.
You keep on remind me of my eligibility of getting punished , citing bible verses ( I know those verses). You keep on accuse me as a stumbling block. ...Otherwise you are polite in your writing , I appreciate that.
Since you chose to converse through Bible verses , I too prefer to do that way .
நீங்கள் குற்றவாளிகளென்று தீர்க்கப்படாதபடிக்கு மற்றவர்களைக் குற்றவாளிகளென்று தீர்க்காதிருங்கள். மத்தேயு 7:1
மற்றவர்களைக் குற்றவாளிகளென்று தீர்க்காதிருங்கள், அப்பொழுது நீங்களும் குற்றவாளிகளென்று தீர்க்கப்படாதிருப்பீர்கள், மற்றவர்களை ஆக்கினைக்குள்ளாகும்படி தீர்க்காதிருங்கள், அப்பொழுது நீங்களும் ஆக்கினைக்குள்ளாகத் தீர்க்கப்படாதிருப்பீர்கள், விடுதலைபண்ணுங்கள், அப்பொழுது நீங்களும் விடுதலைபண்ணப்படுவீர்கள். லூக்கா 6:37
ஆகையால், மற்றவர்களைக் குற்றவாளியாகத் தீர்க்கிறவனே, நீ யாரானாலும் சரி. போக்குச்சொல்ல உனக்கு இடமில்லை, நீ குற்றமாகத் தீர்க்கிறவைகள் எவைகளோ, அவைகளை நீயே செய்கிறபடியால், நீ மற்றவர்களைக்குறித்துச் சொல்லுகிற தீர்ப்பினாலே உன்னைத்தானே குற்றவாளியாகத் தீர்க்கிறாய் ரோமர் 2:1
இப்படியிருக்க, நீ உன் சகோதரனைக் குற்றவாளியென்று தீர்க்கிறதென்ன? நீ உன் சகோதரனை அற்பமாய் எண்ணுகிறதென்ன? நாமெல்லாரும் கிறிஸ்துவினுடைய நியாயாசனத்திற்கு முன்பாக நிற்போமே.ரோமர் 14:10